Notes from JavaOne 2004 Open Source panel discussion I jotted these notes down while watching Sun's webcast. I think it's great that they made this available - thanks Sun! These notes are incomplet and incorrekt. If you have any comments or corrections, please send them to me, Anthony Green . If you want an accurate record, just go to the original source. I have my own editorial comments at the end. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Participants ------------- Brian Behlendorf Rob Gingell, Sun James Gosling, Sun James Governor (sp?) , analyst? java user? dunno. Lawrence Lessig Justin Scheaffer, java user Rod Smith, IBM Tim O'Reilly - moderator Tim: how many of audience hack on open source project? Rod: You should start by open sourcing the J2SE and TCK. Rob: we're really cautious about preventing java programs not being lied to by something claiming to be java. Brian: people want to write open source JSR implementations. open source and compatibility aren't two ends of a spectrum. compatibility can be about branding. we'd like to be able to claim that something is not compatible since incomplete projects must be released. "sunshine law" - JCP would work better with openness Lawrence: don't mess with the free software licenses but achieve compatibility through other means Rod: market place is demanding certified compatilibity Justin: but people are able to satisfy customers with uncertified implementations James Governor: Rob: again, java programs should not be lied to. Brian: open source licenses mean that compatilibity problems are bugs to be fixed and not issues for litigation. Justin: This thing is working. Why risk change? (bug applause) Tim: the mono project is implementing .NET on Linux, not Java. how do we get Linux community to rally around Java and not mono? Gosling: Java is already strong in Linux Tim: Well, open source Java projects are popular, but not maybe not on Linux. Rod: We want Linux + Java to grow together. We should be able to move to one source base for J2SE. Gosling: But this happens already. All bug databases are published. You can download the full sources for J2SE. But the open source community complains that "there's a catch in the license", that's a different from the GPL license. Gosling: We lived through the Unix wars where each implementation was slightly different. Brian: But the same problem exists for Java VMs Rod: Are we hurting the things we want to help? We want to enable people us to help us, so that's why were having these conversations. Rod: What does it mean to open source? If open source is the answer, but please tell me the problem. Changing things would be expensive. I still don't understand SCSL. Brian: In answer of "What does it mean to open source?" You don't have to release implementations. TCK would be awesome. Just change the specification licenses to allow open source implementations. James Governor: We already see innovation in Java. Justin: There is no room for innovation in JS2E. We need a stable platform. Lawrence: why do you resist open sourcing? Justin: Gosling: JCP provides the forum for harvesting and spreading innovation. Rod: You want to be able test things in the JCP process. Things should happen in a more open environment before they go to the JCP. Brian: Yes Lawrence: people who would be excited about change wouldn't necessarily be here. the audience here has already bought into the existing model. Brian: we're like to see the JCP community allow for _true_ open source implementations of the JSRs, especially the core JSR. Gosling: please participate. get involved in jcp.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony's editorial comments: I think Brian, Lawrence, Rod, Lawrence did great job of representing the interests of the open source java community. Tim was a fine, if strongly biased, moderator. Of the Sun people, Rob seemed open/resigned to change, but James' comments were along the lines of `nothing's wrong with the status quo'. The other guys seemed strongly against any change (and this seemed to resonate with the audience).